diff --git a/src/Simplex/Chat.hs b/src/Simplex/Chat.hs
index 0a301fda22..7d29133531 100644
--- a/src/Simplex/Chat.hs
+++ b/src/Simplex/Chat.hs
@@ -481,7 +481,7 @@ processChatCommand = \case
         then pure $ chatCmdError (Just user) ("feature not allowed " <> T.unpack (chatFeatureNameText CFVoice))
         else do
           (fInv_, ciFile_, ft_) <- unzipMaybe3 <$> setupSndFileTransfer ct
-          timed_ <- sndContactCITimed live itemTTL ct
+          timed_ <- sndContactCITimed live ct itemTTL
           (msgContainer, quotedItem_) <- prepareMsg fInv_ timed_
           (msg@SndMessage {sharedMsgId}, _) <- sendDirectContactMessage ct (XMsgNew msgContainer)
           case ft_ of
@@ -541,7 +541,7 @@ processChatCommand = \case
         then pure $ chatCmdError (Just user) ("feature not allowed " <> T.unpack (groupFeatureNameText GFVoice))
         else do
           (fInv_, ciFile_, ft_) <- unzipMaybe3 <$> setupSndFileTransfer g (length $ filter memberCurrent ms)
-          timed_ <- sndGroupCITimed live itemTTL gInfo
+          timed_ <- sndGroupCITimed live gInfo itemTTL
           (msgContainer, quotedItem_) <- prepareMsg fInv_ timed_ membership
           msg@SndMessage {sharedMsgId} <- sendGroupMessage user gInfo ms (XMsgNew msgContainer)
           mapM_ (sendGroupFileInline ms sharedMsgId) ft_
@@ -1790,16 +1790,17 @@ processChatCommand = \case
       chatRef <- getChatRef user chatName
       let mc = MCText msg
       processChatCommand . APISendMessage chatRef live Nothing $ ComposedMessage Nothing Nothing mc
-    sndContactCITimed :: Bool -> Maybe Int -> Contact -> m (Maybe CITimed)
-    sndContactCITimed live itemTTL ct = mapM (sndCITimed_ live) $ contactTimedTTL ct itemTTL
-    sndGroupCITimed :: Bool -> Maybe Int -> GroupInfo -> m (Maybe CITimed)
-    sndGroupCITimed live itemTTL g = mapM (sndCITimed_ live) $ groupTimedTTL g itemTTL
-    sndCITimed_ :: Bool -> Int -> m CITimed
-    sndCITimed_ live ttl =
-      CITimed ttl
-        <$> if live
-          then pure Nothing
-          else Just . addUTCTime (realToFrac ttl) <$> liftIO getCurrentTime
+    sndContactCITimed :: Bool -> Contact -> Maybe Int -> m (Maybe CITimed)
+    sndContactCITimed live = sndCITimed_ live . contactTimedTTL
+    sndGroupCITimed :: Bool -> GroupInfo -> Maybe Int -> m (Maybe CITimed)
+    sndGroupCITimed live = sndCITimed_ live . groupTimedTTL
+    sndCITimed_ :: Bool -> Maybe (Maybe Int) -> Maybe Int -> m (Maybe CITimed)
+    sndCITimed_ live chatTTL itemTTL =
+      forM (chatTTL >>= (itemTTL <|>)) $ \ttl ->
+        CITimed ttl
+          <$> if live
+                then pure Nothing
+                else Just . addUTCTime (realToFrac ttl) <$> liftIO getCurrentTime
     drgRandomBytes :: Int -> m ByteString
     drgRandomBytes n = asks idsDrg >>= liftIO . (`randomBytes` n)
     privateGetUser :: UserId -> m User
diff --git a/src/Simplex/Chat/Messages.hs b/src/Simplex/Chat/Messages.hs
index 170489d8e5..b699cbbc06 100644
--- a/src/Simplex/Chat/Messages.hs
+++ b/src/Simplex/Chat/Messages.hs
@@ -344,7 +344,7 @@ instance ToJSON (CIMeta c d) where toEncoding = J.genericToEncoding J.defaultOpt
 
 data CITimed = CITimed
   { ttl :: Int, -- seconds
-    deleteAt :: Maybe UTCTime
+    deleteAt :: Maybe UTCTime -- this is initially Nothing for received items, the timer starts when they are read
   }
   deriving (Show, Generic)
 
@@ -353,30 +353,26 @@ instance ToJSON CITimed where toEncoding = J.genericToEncoding J.defaultOptions
 ttl' :: CITimed -> Int
 ttl' CITimed {ttl} = ttl
 
-contactTimedTTL :: Contact -> Maybe Int -> Maybe Int
-contactTimedTTL
-  Contact {mergedPreferences = ContactUserPreferences {timedMessages = ContactUserPreference {enabled, userPreference}}}
-  itemTTL
-    | forUser enabled && forContact enabled = itemTTL <|> ttl
-    | otherwise = Nothing
-    where
-      TimedMessagesPreference {ttl} = preference (userPreference :: ContactUserPref TimedMessagesPreference)
+contactTimedTTL :: Contact -> Maybe (Maybe Int)
+contactTimedTTL Contact {mergedPreferences = ContactUserPreferences {timedMessages = ContactUserPreference {enabled, userPreference}}}
+  | forUser enabled && forContact enabled = Just ttl
+  | otherwise = Nothing
+  where
+    TimedMessagesPreference {ttl} = preference (userPreference :: ContactUserPref TimedMessagesPreference)
 
-groupTimedTTL :: GroupInfo -> Maybe Int -> Maybe Int
-groupTimedTTL
-  GroupInfo {fullGroupPreferences = FullGroupPreferences {timedMessages = TimedMessagesGroupPreference {enable, ttl}}}
-  itemTTL
-    | enable == FEOn = itemTTL <|> Just ttl
-    | otherwise = Nothing
+groupTimedTTL :: GroupInfo -> Maybe (Maybe Int)
+groupTimedTTL GroupInfo {fullGroupPreferences = FullGroupPreferences {timedMessages = TimedMessagesGroupPreference {enable, ttl}}}
+  | enable == FEOn = Just $ Just ttl
+  | otherwise = Nothing
 
 rcvContactCITimed :: Contact -> Maybe Int -> Maybe CITimed
-rcvContactCITimed ct itemTTL = rcvCITimed_ $ contactTimedTTL ct itemTTL
+rcvContactCITimed = rcvCITimed_ . contactTimedTTL
 
 rcvGroupCITimed :: GroupInfo -> Maybe Int -> Maybe CITimed
-rcvGroupCITimed g itemTTL = rcvCITimed_ $ groupTimedTTL g itemTTL
+rcvGroupCITimed = rcvCITimed_ . groupTimedTTL
 
-rcvCITimed_ :: Maybe Int -> Maybe CITimed
-rcvCITimed_ rcvTTL = (`CITimed` Nothing) <$> rcvTTL
+rcvCITimed_ :: Maybe (Maybe Int) -> Maybe Int -> Maybe CITimed
+rcvCITimed_ chatTTL itemTTL = (`CITimed` Nothing) <$> (chatTTL >> itemTTL)
 
 data CIQuote (c :: ChatType) = CIQuote
   { chatDir :: CIQDirection c,